Skaters report abusive training environments

[clairecloutier]

Swedish skaters Selma Ihr and Matilda Algotsson have spoken out about abusive training environments within Sweden--see article cited and translation in the below tweet. They state that they have faced pressures around their weight and around training/competing while injured.

klara 🐇⛸ definitely hiatus, maybe on Twitter

“Tw weight, eating disorders This article was in a major Swedish newspaper yesterday. The headline reads: “Figure skaters accuse top club of stirring up an obsession with weight”. Translation below https://t.co/cdzodRiF49”

twitter.com

Ihr says she had to report her weight to her coach every Friday. "In the end, I didn't eat anything in the day and a half leading up to the weigh-in. I got headaches. I was tired. And it also meant that I couldn't give 100% during training."

Several other Swedish skaters are also mentioned in the translation.

 

[nimi]

Ugh.

Kudos to skaters like Selma and Matilda for speaking out, that must've been a very scary thing to do.

In case there are Swedish speakers here who want to hear about depressing shit that's been swept under the rug in neighboring country, here's an article (more links in the Finnish skaters thread):

Finländsk konståkare öppnar upp om sexuella trakasserier – tränaren fortfarande aktiv och förnekar utsagorna (Från 2019)

Kvinnan som vill vara anonym säger att hon inte är ensam.

svenska.yle.fi

 

[bethy135]

Doesn't surprise me at all - seems pretty common in the sport from what little I've personally witnessed. I am so sorry for what they are going through.

 

[Sylvia]

@nimi recently posted in the Finnish news thread about a situation involving a former national team female skater that made the news there (Kiira Korpi is speaking up about it ) ... ETA: click on her link in post #2 (missed seeing it earlier).

@clairecloutier, would you like to modify your thread title so it's not just about Swedish skaters? Thanks for starting it.

 

[Sylvia]

Also, in the German news thread earlier this summer (some might remember the past history re. coach Karel Fajfr): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/german-skating-news-2019-2020.105603/page-4#post-5616031

Summary of the German federation's initial response on August 13: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/german-skating-news-2019-2020.105603/page-5#post-5618476

 

[Enchanted]

I’m very happy various skaters have started to talk about these issues that are very prevalent in figure skating. Bringing the abuse into publicity is the only way to build something more sustainable. It won’t be easy but it has to be done.

 

[Finnice]

Finally this is widely spoken about! I love this sport, but I do not want anyone to suffer because they want to be the best. We need more sport psychologs and nutritionists to keep the balance.

 

[nimi]

My talk with Matilda

Matilda Algotsson: "I love this sport so much and I don't want to stop"
http://absoluteskating.com/interviews/2019algotsson.html

reut did this interview with Matilda and she gave some background and context around the Dagens Nyheter story about abusive training environment. Small excerpt:

I was hesitant at first, trying to understand whether it will be good or bad for me to do it. But then I decided that I want to do it, because now Selma is probably not going to skate anymore and I felt really sad about it. I also knew it was a serious newspaper - there are two big ones in Sweden, and that's one of them - and that they would do it well, not just for the "clicks" and for selling the paper better.
I decided that I want to be a part of it and I am really happy that I dared to do it. I didn't realize how big it was going to get and how many people would relate. Because we were talking about this specific club where we've been in, but then so many other people have been relating to this story and have been opening up. It has got much bigger than I thought.

 

[nimi]

The Swedish Fed has announced there's going to be an independent inquiry into the training environments. Both the local club level and the Federation's operations will be looked at. Special attention will be paid to competitive and elite training environments.

Oberoende utredning – uppdrag och tillvägagångssätt - #skatesweden

skatesweden.se

Meanwhile in Finland, a female synchro coach has been accused of inappropriate behavior (verbal abuse, bullying behaviors) by 10+ former skaters. The Fed's disciplinary board has been looking into the situation and will decide soon whether they'll take action, e.g. issue a warning or a ban: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli...kohteena-tutkinta-kaynnissa/7592058#gs.a5w3yh

 

[Frau Muller]

This happens a lot. This is a sport in which, in the elite competitive rank, the need to be Uber-thin is important, to achieve the highest point totals. It’s no longer just about aesthetics. To young skaters for whom staying rail thin is not natural - like 95% of all humans - I say “Get out and enjoy figure skating at a non-elite level.” Or opt for a sport in which your narural fit body type is a plus.

 

[whiteskates]

The weight issue is very problematic and figure skating is not the only sport at which the thin ones often do better. Should the ISU decide on a minimal BMI?

 

[nimi]

This thread is supposed to be about skaters reporting abusive training ENVIRONMENTS. Could we please not single-mindedly focus on young skaters' bodies and BMI instead because a) that debate has been waged many many times on this forum and b) it always turns really ugly and toxic and unproductive and c) it basically posits the skaters bodies themselves as the source of all problems, while conveniently glossing over cultural issues and power structures that enable unhealthy training methods and coaches behaving in an abusive and/or inappropriate manner.

Or do you really think that if only all the elite skaters were exactly the right weight/shape (as defined by random posters on a forum with no real expertise on sports nutrition and biomechanics etc.) there would be no coaches on a power trip insulting underage skaters and making them train while injured, etc.? If not, why solely focus on skaters weight and bodies? Is it just easier to focus on something concrete (like the weight and body shape of a young person) rather than more nebulous things like culture and power differentials that you'd rather just ignore?

I mean... Claire started this thread posting an article translation that detailed things like a coach forcing skaters to train and compete while injured, against medical advice, leading to lasting harm and a skater feeling "mentally destroyed" years after he quit. So, why make it all about skaters not being naturally thin enough? Are people here seriously insinuating that if only the skaters in question had "naturally" the "right" BMI and body shape, this coach would have been mindful of skaters' mental and physical well-being and listened to medical advice? And later in the thread, when I posted a link to an article about an (allegedly) abusive coach in synchro skating, the very next comment states as a fact that being "Uber-thin" is important to scoring high and not because of the aesthetics. Um... Even if you didn't bother to google translate the article, have you ever watched synchro? How is staying naturally "rail thin" the key to performing synchro elements in a way that maximizes the points? So now being "rail thin" is not only the key to jumping better, but apparently "rail thin" skaters automatically have better skating skills and synchronization too, and also are better and stronger at lifting other skaters in order to perform really spectacular synchro lifts that maximize the lift GOEs? WTF? So, is it basically the fault of the skaters who (presumably) were not naturally "rail thin" enough but didn't "get out and enjoy figure skating at a non-elite level", yet continued to train anyway (oh the horror!) that this poor synchro coach had no other option but to resort to bullying and humiliating underaged skaters?

 

[Finnice]

@nimi, a very good post!
It makes me very sad to think how much we have had news of abusive skating environments lately. In a way it also gives hope: at least we are talking about this, finally. But I also still feel that FFSA is trying to hush this discussion and leaving the responsibility to individual skaters.
The weight obsession is one of the elements of a toxic environment.

 

[Lis]

The weight issue is very problematic and figure skating is not the only sport at which the thin ones often do better. Should the ISU decide on a minimal BMI?

Very interesting thought!!!

 

[Winnipeg]

Is it a fine line though? Skaters want to be successful. They pay a coach to tell them what they need to do, So the coach provides an opinion and the skater takes offense - or?

 

[MacMadame]

Very interesting thought!!!

I thought it was meant to be sarcastic. Since BMI is a meaningless measure in terms of an individual. It’s particularly stupid when applied to an athlete since it doesn’t take into account body composition.

For example, take 3 athletes, all the same height and gender. Athlete A could be muscular with low body fat, Athletes B could have a higher body fat and less muscles and Athlete C could have low body fat and less muscle.

Athlete A and B could very well weigh exactly the same. But which one is more fit? And more likely to have the strength to perform well? It’s probably Athlete A. And Athlete C would weigh less — which the coach might praise — but could lack the strength to do well.

This is one reason why weigh-ins are useless IMO. And, since they are useless, a coach insisting on doing them is either ignorant or controlling. The later means they are abusive since they are doing this useless thing for psychological control. The former is troubling but in a different way, not an abusive way.

 

[overedge]

Is it a fine line though? Skaters want to be successful. They pay a coach to tell them what they need to do, So the coach provides an opinion and the skater takes offense - or?

"What they need to do" is very subjective.

And some coaches IME do not consider their feedback as an "opinion". It's what they expect the skater to do, and if the skater doesn't want to follow that direction, they can find another coach.

 

[Vagabond]

Kiira Korpi: Figure skating is like a church: everything is beautiful outside until you find out how everything is arranged inside

A brief interview on the issue of abusive training environments.

Spoiler: A bit of humor from the interview with regard to a very serious subject. Please don't click on this if you are easily offended.

Have you ever talked with coach Eteri Tutberidze, for example? About this topic or in general?

– No. To be honest, I’m a little afraid of her. (laughs)

 

[Willin]

I think the most interesting part of this will be what happens in the future as far as results go. While Western Europe and North America are in a cultural shift focused on creating healthier training environments and providing safe spaces to train (although certainly abusive pockets will pop up - though reporting systems will be more available and possibly more acceptable to use) and Japan seems to have healthy training environments, China, Russia, North Korea, etc. seem to not be experiencing the cultural shift. I wonder if they'll win more as we see with the Eteri girls or if

Medvedeva's already talked a bit about how Eteri's school wasn't exactly healthy, if in a roundabout way, but I wonder what else will come out of there. The abuses in China are reported for other sports but not figure skating.

This thread is supposed to be about skaters reporting abusive training ENVIRONMENTS. Could we please not single-mindedly focus on young skaters' bodies and BMI instead because a) that debate has been waged many many times on this forum and b) it always turns really ugly and toxic and unproductive and c) it basically posits the skaters bodies themselves as the source of all problems, while conveniently glossing over cultural issues and power structures that enable unhealthy training methods and coaches behaving in an abusive and/or inappropriate manner.

Or do you really think that if only all the elite skaters were exactly the right weight/shape (as defined by random posters on a forum with no real expertise on sports nutrition and biomechanics etc.) there would be no coaches on a power trip insulting underage skaters and making them train while injured, etc.? If not, why solely focus on skaters weight and bodies? Is it just easier to focus on something concrete (like the weight and body shape of a young person) rather than more nebulous things like culture and power differentials that you'd rather just ignore?

I mean... Claire started this thread posting an article translation that detailed things like a coach forcing skaters to train and compete while injured, against medical advice, leading to lasting harm and a skater feeling "mentally destroyed" years after he quit. So, why make it all about skaters not being naturally thin enough? Are people here seriously insinuating that if only the skaters in question had "naturally" the "right" BMI and body shape, this coach would have been mindful of skaters' mental and physical well-being and listened to medical advice? And later in the thread, when I posted a link to an article about an (allegedly) abusive coach in synchro skating, the very next comment states as a fact that being "Uber-thin" is important to scoring high and not because of the aesthetics. Um... Even if you didn't bother to google translate the article, have you ever watched synchro? How is staying naturally "rail thin" the key to performing synchro elements in a way that maximizes the points? So now being "rail thin" is not only the key to jumping better, but apparently "rail thin" skaters automatically have better skating skills and synchronization too, and also are better and stronger at lifting other skaters in order to perform really spectacular synchro lifts that maximize the lift GOEs? WTF? So, is it basically the fault of the skaters who (presumably) were not naturally "rail thin" enough but didn't "get out and enjoy figure skating at a non-elite level", yet continued to train anyway (oh the horror!) that this poor synchro coach had no other option but to resort to bullying and humiliating underaged skaters?

The synchro part is so stupid. There are plenty of overweight and borderline overweight synchro skaters that do just fine for themselves at all levels from youth all the way up to Collegiate and Senior. Even height differences don't affect GOE or anything. I've seen Senior teams with skaters ranging from 5' to 5'10ish who are near the top of the rankings every year. I've seen collegiate teams medal Nationally with +GOE across the board with stick thin to obese skaters. ETA: Also, if you ever go to a synchro competition you'll notice pretty quickly that once the skaters start moving it's generally hard to tell size differences as far as weight/height unless it's very drastic. Programs and dresses are easily made to minimize differences both for safety and aesthetic (eg. taller skaters with taller skaters, shorter with shorter)

Senior teams, at least in the US and Canada, tend to have skinnier skaters, but that's more because of how much they train and the off-ice conditioning they do (although I'm sure for a few of them eating disorders are unfortunately involved). The Haydenettes in particular have a grueling physical fitness eval every skater has to pass during tryouts to make sure they can make it through their training. And then they train 20+ hours a week with the team including off ice conditioning AND an additional 10(?) hours on their own. Even with that, they do have a lot of non-rail-thin skaters.

I do think there are certain teams (Russian in particular) that have a particular rail-thin aesthetic due to cultural norms you see in other things like ballet and the ladies singles skating in the country, but the synchro judges I know don't care as long as your lines match up.

 

[WanderlustTO]

Wow. This is disappointing to hear. I knew this happened in figure skating - but for some reason I didn't think that it would happen in Sweden (on reflection, this of course was an ignorant assumption on my part).

There had been a very promising young skater in Sweden a few years ago, I think her name was Anastasia Schneider, who suddenly disappeared. I wonder if the skating culture had anything to do with it.

 

[Sylvia]

TSL's newest interview:

The two-time Grand Prix gold medalist is currently studying psychology at the New School [in NYC] and hopes to use positive psychology to improve coaching techniques. I had the chance to catch up with Kiira Korpi and get her perspective on areas of the sport that need improvement.

Kiira Korpi: A Conversation About Athlete Safety

Kiira Korpi has always been a beloved figure in the sport. Recently, the the three-time European medalist raised eyebrows during Skate America when she asked...

www.youtube.com

 

[nimi]

An article talking about coach Karel Fajfr and "climate of fear" in Bavarian skating clubs:

Unruhe in Eiskunstlauf-Szene: Abteilungsleiterin tritt zurück

Die Eiskunstlauf-Abteilungsleiterin des WSV Aschaffenburg hat überraschend ihr Amt niedergelegt, dementiert jedoch jeden Zusammenhang mit der Diskussion um Trainer Fajfr.

www.mainpost.de

 

[4rkidz]

Finally this is widely spoken about! I love this sport, but I do not want anyone to suffer because they want to be the best. We need more sport psychologs and nutritionists to keep the balance.

As a sports consultant who has done these types of groups, I can tell you in the past clubs were far more interested in talking about sports performance and goals than they were about healthy communications. But perhaps all the awful news it will make clubs wake up and realize that their children need protections and education is the best tool for that. Especially as many of these kids have been in an closed skating community they might be more vulnerable to abusive coaches and/or older skaters etc as that really does put them at risk for grooming etc.,

 

[Tinami Amori]

An article talking about coach Karel Fajfr and "climate of fear" in Bavarian skating clubs:

Unruhe in Eiskunstlauf-Szene: Abteilungsleiterin tritt zurück

Die Eiskunstlauf-Abteilungsleiterin des WSV Aschaffenburg hat überraschend ihr Amt niedergelegt, dementiert jedoch jeden Zusammenhang mit der Diskussion um Trainer Fajfr.

www.mainpost.de

The skater Fajfr also stated that the coach was beating him....

Gewalt beim Eiskunst-Training: Angst vor den Ausrastern

Der 19-jährige Eiskunstläufer Isaak Droysen wirft seinem früheren Trainer Karel Fajfr vor, ihn misshandelt zu haben. Die Vorwürfe sind nicht neu.

taz.de

Würzburger Eiskunstläufer wirft Trainer Fajfr Misshandlung vor

Eiskunstläufer Isaak Droysen (19) aus Würzburg spricht erstmals über Schläge und Demütigungen seines Ex-Trainers. Karel Fajfr bestreitet die Vorwürfe.

www.mainpost.de

Droysen hatte Fajfr, der ihn im Bundesleistungszentrum Oberstdorf trainiert hatte, vorgeworfen, ihn über Jahre körperlich und seelisch misshandelt zu haben. Das einstige Vorzeigetalent des WSV Aschaffenburg hatte von Demütigungen, Schlägen und Beschimpfungen berichtet.

 

[Vagabond]

Figure skating, John Coughlin and the disturbing reality of athlete-on-athlete abuse

The stuff about Coughlin has been discussed elsewhere. The article, however, does have an interesting discussion of prevention, education, and the inadequacy of SafeSport's funding to carry out its mission.

“The Center is on the record saying it needs more resources. The number of reports has grown to a number that is astonishing,” Hill says. At present, according to Hill, the Center receives approximately 230 reports a month, a 600% increase over the monthly average from 2017. This caseload is managed by 24 employees. In an email, Hill said that by the end of 2020, they expect to have more than 40 employees managing the caseload.

“SafeSport is so wrapped up in wrapping up investigations that I don’t think a ton of work has been done on the outreach and education,” Xiao says.

This helps explain the attitude taken by certain coaches to reports of athlete-on-athlete abuse.

 

[nimi]

Figure skating, John Coughlin and the disturbing reality of athlete-on-athlete abuse

Thanks for sharing this article! Dvora Meyers is good at her job.

An article talking about coach Karel Fajfr and "climate of fear" in Bavarian skating clubs:

Unruhe in Eiskunstlauf-Szene: Abteilungsleiterin tritt zurück

Die Eiskunstlauf-Abteilungsleiterin des WSV Aschaffenburg hat überraschend ihr Amt niedergelegt, dementiert jedoch jeden Zusammenhang mit der Diskussion um Trainer Fajfr.

www.mainpost.de

I didn't realize/remember when I posted the article, but this is not the first time Fajfr has been accused of abuse. From his Wikipedia page:

In autumn 1994 an investigation was launched into alleged abuse of some of his students.[2] Fajfr was charged with eleven counts of sexual abuse and two counts of battery.[3] In December 1995, he was sentenced to two years probation, fined 25,000 Deutsche Mark, and given a three-year Berufsverbot (professional disqualification).[4]

 

[Areski]

Thanks for sharing this article! Dvora Meyers is good at her job.

I didn't realize/remember when I posted the article, but this is not the first time Fajfr has been accused of abuse. From his Wikipedia page:

Why do they not shun him? I find it pretty staggering, that these skaters and their parents have nothing against their children being coached by Fajfr. Or do they don't know about his past (and sadly present actions)?

 

[Vagabond]

Why do they not shun him? I find it pretty staggering, that these skaters and their parents have nothing against their children being coached by Fajfr. Or do they don't know about his past (and sadly present actions)?

Article in German About the Most Recent Known Complaint Against Fajfr

From Google Translate:

He did not know that Karel Fajfr (74) was a criminal convicted in a sensational trial in the 90s for child abuse, among other things, when he started working with Faifr at the federal base of the German Skating Union (DEU) in Oberstdorf in 2013....

"At that time I was still a child, my parents were completely new to the figure skating scene in Oberstdorf, because you rely on your home team and the recommendations of your trainer and sports officials. Nobody told us that he had such a history"

Karel Fajfr's Wikipedia pageIndicates that the professional restrictions placed on him expired many years ago.

It's possible that the people Isaak Droysen's parents consulted were all in the dark about his true nature and his past history, but I think it's more likely that those who knew kept silent.

 

[Areski]

Article in German About the Most Recent Known Complaint Against Fajfr

From Google Translate:



Karel Fajfr's Wikipedia pageIndicates that the professional restrictions placed on him expired many years ago.

It's possible that the people Isaak Droysen's parents consulted were all in the dark about his true nature and his past history, but I think it's more likely that those who knew kept silent.

Then .. we and people there should actively spell the gospel about him if his own co-workers are not keen on doing that.

 

[Jeschke]

We did not even think that far to google Karel Fajfr. He was presented to us as a normal trainer. [...]
Everyone has told us that he is an excellent coach who can bring Isaac to the top.

The quote above by Droysen's mother kinda speaks for itself, at least for me.

Lots of articles about Fajfr 90's charges easily popped up just 'googling' his name (even before the new charge). Not to speak of the wikipedia entry mentioned few posts above.

If former coaches etc have been quiet about Fajfr's past, that is absolutely not justifiable.
But the failing of the person most close to him is commented by no one in here.

Then .. we and people there should actively spell the gospel about him if his own co-workers are not keen on doing that.

Maybe taking parents into some kind of responsibility is a more useful step first.