2024 ISU Congress Agenda

[Andrea82]

Here we go

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/33753-isu-communication-2629/file

126 pages.

Congress will take place in Las Vegas from 8 to 14th June.

USFSA is proposing a technical commentate exclusively for Pairs. ISU Council is against the proposal.

ISU Council is proposing the following age limits for Junior
Pairs: 21 for women, 23 for men. Max 7 years age gap
Ice Dance: 21 for both partners. max 7 years age gap

USFSA wants 16 years old as minimum age for Senior Pairs for next season. ISU Council is against.

Skate Canada proposes a release procedure in which previous ISU member can't deny release if "proper document" are provided. ISU Council is against.

Skate Canada on music rotations during the practices: Rotation of Music for Official Practices when not in start order: In seasons that begin with an odd year (e.g. 2023-2024) music rotation will be alphabetical by country from A to Z. In seasons that begin with an even year (e.g. 2024-2025) music rotation will be alphabetical by country from M to L

Japan Fed don't want events finishing after 10 pm

Germany wants a -1 deduction for adjsting the original tempo of a piece of music to meet the tempo requirements or to facilitate the execution of requirements (e.g. keypoints, difficult steps and turns)

Netherlands want to reduce by 50% the base values of elements in which there is a fall.

USFSA don't want the use of the stopwatch to determine the penalties for long lifts. Instead the the clock on the screen must be used to confirm the time of the dance lift prior to a deduction being taken.

Skate Canada wants advanced novice competitions being used for service requirements of pairs technical controllers and specialists.

ISU Technical committees proposed lowering the minimum age of international judges to 21.

In-person seminars for re-certification of judges to be valid for 4 years. Prosed by the Technical Committees.

ISU council proposes to eliminate the participation to victory ceremonies from the duties of referees and technical controllers. In the Covid years, they were not present and nobody missed them.

Japan proposes tablets being available in technical panel stands because...they may need to check the rule book.

ISU Council wants Free Skating/Dance to be in reverse order of the first segment because the media loves it

Back to a pool to 9 judges for 4 Continents rather than 10. Proposed by the Tech Committees to save money.

Backflips to be made legal because...they are spectacular. Proposed by Singles & Pair Skating Technical Committee.

Euler to become a not-listed jump. And cannot be included in the jump combination of the Short Program. In the FS
after the execution of an Euler (half- loop) no change of foot is allowed.

Pairs FS: lifts down from 3 to 2. One choreographic lift added. Choreographic pair spin added. Pair spin combination and
choreographic sequence gone. Jump combinations/sequences must have 2 jumps, not 3.

 

[Karen-W]

Here we go

https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/33753-isu-communication-2629/file

126 pages.

Congress will take place in Las Vegas from 8 to 14th June.

USFSA is proposing a technical commentate exclusively for Pairs. ISU Council is against the proposal.

The ISU Council proves they are stupid. And Meagan Duhamel just became the biggest fan of the USFS with this proposal, lol. But I'm happy they're proposing a separate tech committee for Pairs. It's very necessary but it will probably fail because the USFS didn't include a proposed budget and that's part of the ISU Council's opposition.

ISU Council is proposing the following age limits for Junior
Pairs: 21 for women, 23 for men. Max 7 years age gap
Ice Dance: 21 for both partners. max 7 years age gap

USFSA wants 16 years old as minimum age for Senior Pairs for next season. ISU Council is against.

I agree, wholeheartedly, with a maximum age gap at the junior level. I'm not sure that I agree it should be 7 for both seeing as the proposed age max for the men in pairs and ice dance is not the same.

The ISU Council is also proposing the following age limits for Novice -
Basic Novice - not reached the age of 14 (currently 13)
Intermediate Novice - not reached the age of 16 (currently 15)
Advanced Novice - min 10, not reached the age of 16 (currently 15) for girls in all disciplines and single boys, not reached the age of 18 (currently 17) for pairs and ice dance boys.

The USFS proposal is not just for next season but would be a permanent freeze - the text of their proposal reads "From the Season 2024/25 onwards..."

Canada has two proposals for the Junior age limits:

1) Raise the Junior Ice Dance Women and Men age limit to 21.
2) Raise the Junior Pairs Women & Men age limit to 23.

I think the ISU proposal is actually the best of all 4 proposals on the table.

Skate Canada proposes a release procedure in which previous ISU member can't deny release if "proper document" are provided. ISU Council is against.

Actually, the proposal is two-fold... Part 1 requires the skater/team in question to sit out a FULL season since the skater represented the previous ISU Member - call this the Soucisse/Firus proposal since that's what they wanted to force on SouFir - that they sit out the entire 2023-24 season instead of being released and eligible to represent Ireland 12 months after they last represented Canada in Nov 2022.

Austria is proposing that Synchro teams can have up to 50% (currently 25%) of the skaters on a synchro team be a member of an ISU member different from the one the team they're on represents. ISU Council is opposed.

Skate Canada on music rotations during the practices: Rotation of Music for Official Practices when not in start order: In seasons that begin with an odd year (e.g. 2023-2024) music rotation will be alphabetical by country from A to Z. In seasons that begin with an even year (e.g. 2024-2025) music rotation will be alphabetical by country from M to L

I like this. No reason in particular except that I just do.

Japan Fed don't want events finishing after 10 pm

It's good, sound rationale in the proposal but I don't think it will be passed without amendment. I can't see ISU Championships or even the Grand Prix being forced to adhere to a 10pm finish time.

Germany wants a -1 deduction for adjsting the original tempo of a piece of music to meet the tempo requirements or to facilitate the execution of requirements (e.g. keypoints, difficult steps and turns)

LOL - It's a noble but doomed effort.

Netherlands want to reduce by 50% the base values of elements in which there is a fall.

LOL - sure, Jan, if you want to try and convince us that the judges are actually applying GOE correctly for elements with falls, you go right ahead there.

USFSA don't want the use of the stopwatch to determine the penalties for long lifts. Instead the the clock on the screen must be used to confirm the time of the dance lift prior to a deduction being taken.

I don't disagree with their reasoning at all in this - Human error using the stopwatch and inconsistencies in outcomes with significant penalty.

ISU council proposes to eliminate the participation to victory ceremonies from the duties of referees and technical controllers. In the Covid years, they were not present and nobody missed them.

Their presence really is sort of unnecessary and just adds extra time to the ceremony.

Japan proposes tablets being available in technical panel stands because...they may need to check the rule book.

Seems reasonable - they're also requiring that the tablet have all electronic communication functions disabled. So, it really is just having the digital version of the tech handbook available on demand.

ISU Council wants Free Skating/Dance to be in reverse order of the first segment because the media loves it.

The media might love it but I'm not sure the fans love it. But, hey, what's it matter what the FANS think?

ISU is also proposing that entries BY NAME for ISU Championships be submitted 28 days prior to the first official practice day. Which would, effectively, mean that TES mins have to be achieved by that date instead, I think.

ISU Council is proposing a QR Minimum Combined Total Element Score Ranking List - top 30 for Men/Women, top 16 for Pairs, top 20 for Ice Dance. I think that this is a bit of a tweak/clarification on how many countries can submit entries for the QRs - it's not just a straight list of ISU Members but instead a separate list of countries without Direct Entries already.

Tech committees are proposing the following changes in PCS -
Composition - remove Unity, Pattern and ice coverage
Presentation - add Oneness and awareness of space (pairs & ice dance)
Skating Skills - add Unison (pairs & ice dance)

Pairs skating - they're eliminating the Choreo Sequence, the other proposals have already been reported - 1 choreo lift replaces one of the overhead lifts; the choreo pair spin replaces the pair spin combo; and the jump combo/seq may consist of only 2 jumps.

 

[Capella]

Why do they still have timed lifts in dance when they don’t in pairs?

Can individual people submit ideas?

 

[Karen-W]

Can individual people submit ideas?

No. Proposals must be submitted by ISU Member federations, the ISU Council, or the specific Technical Committees for each sport.

 

[overedge]

Can individual people submit ideas?

I think ideas/proposals have to come through federations.

 

[On My Own]

Netherlands want to reduce by 50% the base values of elements in which there is a fall.

Isn't that already happening via -5 GOE...?

Japan proposes tablets being available in technical panel stands because...they may need to check the rule book.

"May" -> "Clearly" need to.

ISU Council wants Free Skating/Dance to be in reverse order of the first segment because the media loves it

IDK what this means.

Backflips to be made legal because...they are spectacular. Proposed by Singles & Pair Skating Technical Committee.

A -2 deduction already means it was legal.

And ISU and I clearly disagree on the word "spectacular".

In the FS after the execution of an Euler (half- loop) no change of foot is allowed.

Now this would actually be exciting if it meant that after executing the euler, a skater would need to skate on that one foot for the rest of the program. But of course, that's not what it means.

 

[MacMadame]

Japan Fed don't want events finishing after 10 pm

Good for them! Now, I think it should be that they can't be scheduled to finish after 10pm but if the event runs long, of course they get to finish. (I suspect the actual proposal says this but I'm too lazy to look.)

Japan proposes tablets being available in technical panel stands because...they may need to check the rule book.

Seems reasonable - they're also requiring that the tablet have all electronic communication functions disabled. So, it really is just having the digital version of the tech handbook available on demand.

Can't they just have a way to pull up the rule book from their existing machines?

Backflips to be made legal because...they are spectacular. Proposed by Singles & Pair Skating Technical Committee.

Spectacular? They are fun but spectacular seems to be both an exaggeration and not a very good justification.

Euler to become a not-listed jump. And cannot be included in the jump combination of the Short Program. In the FS
after the execution of an Euler (half- loop) no change of foot is allowed.

Okay, I am having trouble picturing what they are saying. What does this mean in practice?

The media might love it but I'm not sure the fans love it. But, hey, what's it matter what the FANS think?

I love it and I'm a fan. I didn't love it when it was first proposed but I find it less confusing and more exciting in practice than how they do it now.

 

[Willin]

USFSA is proposing a technical commentate exclusively for Pairs. ISU Council is against the proposal.

Why would the ISU be against this? Cost? This seems perfectly reasonable.

Skate Canada on music rotations during the practices: Rotation of Music for Official Practices when not in start order: In seasons that begin with an odd year (e.g. 2023-2024) music rotation will be alphabetical by country from A to Z. In seasons that begin with an even year (e.g. 2024-2025) music rotation will be alphabetical by country from M to L

Doesn't make much sense. Can't they just keep it consistent for every official practice? Why change it every other season and make it harder to figure out. Just do it by start order every time.

Germany wants a -1 deduction for adjsting the original tempo of a piece of music to meet the tempo requirements or to facilitate the execution of requirements (e.g. keypoints, difficult steps and turns)

Yes please! I don't know if this would cut down on or add to the terrible cover version problem, but weird remixes and covers skaters use to Frankenstein their song of choice into the flavor of the season needs to stop.

OTOH, I can see how this is sometimes necessary given the theme SDs - there'd be a much more limited selection of music to use each year if you couldn't slightly adjust things.

USFSA don't want the use of the stopwatch to determine the penalties for long lifts. Instead the the clock on the screen must be used to confirm the time of the dance lift prior to a deduction being taken.

Fair. Stopwatches are falliable and subject to how good the reaction time is of the ref. The screen allows for video review of the lift and more objective review of that call. I didn't know this wasn't a thing, but it really should be.

Japan proposes tablets being available in technical panel stands because...they may need to check the rule book.

Once again, how was this not a thing? I suppose tablets may be overkill due to budget issues, but at least a rule reference PDF on an old laptop or in a binder or something...

 

[overedge]

I suppose tablets may be overkill due to budget issues, but at least a rule reference PDF on an old laptop or in a binder or something...

I wonder if it is a security thing, as in judges being able to send "suggestions" to other judges via email/tablet on how to score certain elements. Tablets are the new foot-tapping.

 

[gkelly]

Isn't that already happening via -5 GOE...?

The proposal #182 is to delete the fall deduction from the total segment score and instead to penalize falls on jumps by halving the base value. Rationale:

"Reasons:
1. As criteria how to deal with falls under Program Components are more defined now, the additional reduction for falls from the Total Segment Score is no longer necessary.
2. The impact for GOE reduction in falls is relatively high for single and double jumps and relatively lower for quad jumps. Attaching the fall to the element and reducing its base value provides a more equal playing field."

The examples they give are that the final net value for a 2T with a fall would be approximately the same as it is now, whereas the net value for a 4A with a fall would be more than 2 points lower.

This makes sense if it applies only for falls on jumps. But the proposal doesn't address how to penalize falls on non-jump elements or between elements. I don't think it can be accepted as is but maybe could work with more detail about how to handle other kinds of falls.

A -2 deduction already means it was legal.

Not as defined.

What kind of penalty would you want to consider an element truly illegal? Automatic disqualification from the competition?

Okay, I am having trouble picturing what they are saying. What does this mean in practice?

I think they mean that you can't do jump-Euler-change of foot-toe loop (or loop). As far as I understand that is not currently allowed either, but there were times in the past, under 6.0 and in some earlier versions of IJS, where those kinds of combos/sequences (whatever you want to call them) were valid elements.

Doesn't make much sense. Can't they just keep it consistent for every official practice? Why change it every other season and make it harder to figure out. Just do it by start order every time.

I think this applies mainly to the practice sessions earlier in the week that take place before the short program/rhythm dance draw, when there are not yet any start orders.

 

[SkateGuard]

Japan Fed don't want events finishing after 10 pm

If it were up to me, I'd want them wrapped up by 8. As Jamie Lee Curtis once said, "Mommy goes to bed early... There's nothing good happening with me after 9 o'clock. Nothing. Zero!"

 

[On My Own]

What kind of penalty would you want to consider an element truly illegal? Automatic disqualification from the competition?

A deduction that would actually deter people from doing it. -2 is less than the 5th fall in a program. It is equal to two falls, without even the associated GOE deductions if the falls happened on elements, and it clearly didn't affect PCS either as would happen when there were errors within the program.

Give it a -10 for the supposed danger it possesses and consider it an error for PCS calculation. Who's going to be doing it then?

Not that I would mind Siao Him Fa disqualified for the hideous programs and jump technique.

 

[Desperado]

Skate Canada wants advanced novice competitors being used for service requirements of pairs technical controllers and specialists.

What does this mean?

 

[MacMadame]

I think they mean that you can't do jump-Euler-change of foot-toe loop (or loop). As far as I understand that is not currently allowed either, but there were times in the past, under 6.0 and in some earlier versions of IJS, where those kinds of combos/sequences (whatever you want to call them) were valid elements.

So they can use the Euler to change feet but then can't change feet back after? That's how I read it but I also haven't seen anyone do that so I thought maybe it meant something else.

 

[Andrea82]

What does this mean?

I was suppose to write "competitions" (Advanced novice competitions) but it got autocorrected into competitors for whatever reason and I didn't realize it.

 

[Willin]

I think this applies mainly to the practice sessions earlier in the week that take place before the short program/rhythm dance draw, when there are not yet any start orders.

That would make sense. But is there not some standardized way to do it without start orders? Maybe last name of the skater or the skaters sign up for their spot in their warmup group? Why does Canada want to change it every season and do it by something so arbitrary as country name?

What does this mean?

Judges must judge a certain number of competitions/competitors to maintain their certification to judge. I believe this is saying that international tech panel members would be able to use Advanced Novice competitions in addition to Junior/Senior competitions to fulfill that minimum requirement.

 

[overedge]

I was suppose to write "competitions" (Advanced novice competitions) but it got autocorrected into competitors for whatever reason and I didn't realize it.

I was seriously thinking that this was intended to encourage skaters to participate and give back to the sport, by requiring them to learn how to be a TC or a specialist. I thought it was a great idea

 

[Aussie Willy]

Germany wants a -1 deduction for adjsting the original tempo of a piece of music to meet the tempo requirements or to facilitate the execution of requirements (e.g. keypoints, difficult steps and turns)

That is a bit of an assumption that everyone is going to know if a piece of music has been altered.

Also a bit rich coming from the country whose team used the most inappropriate and worst piece of music for an ice dance program in the past season (Beds are burning). Not saying it was bad music, it was just a bad piece for a skating program.

Japan proposes tablets being available in technical panel stands because...they may need to check the rule book.

I don't have a problem with this but for international events the tablet should be provided as part of the event equipment.

USFSA don't want the use of the stopwatch to determine the penalties for long lifts. Instead the the clock on the screen must be used to confirm the time of the dance lift prior to a deduction being taken.

Agree with this. Also not sure why it hasn't been thought of before but you could always verify the timing of lifts via the video cutting software.

 

[Andrea82]

Judges must judge a certain number of competitions/competitors to maintain their certification to judge. I believe this is saying that international tech panel members would be able to use Advanced Novice competitions in addition to Junior/Senior competitions to fulfill that minimum requirement.

Yes.
Currently, only Senior and Junior competitions are considered to achieve the service requirements to be re-appointed as ISU/international officials. Except for Ice Dance where also International Advanced Novice competitions with 4 or more entries from 3 ISU members are also considered as activities valid for re-appointment.
Skate Canada is proposing that also Advance Novice Pairs competitions with 4 ore more entries from 3 ISU members can be considered for Pairs Technical Controllers and Specialists. Reasoning is that there aren't many pairs events. It is not proposed for judges because judges can use Single competitors (as there is just one "Single and Pair" categories for them) for re-appointments while TC and TS can't.

 

[Karen-W]

That would make sense. But is there not some standardized way to do it without start orders? Maybe last name of the skater or the skaters sign up for their spot in their warmup group? Why does Canada want to change it every season and do it by something so arbitrary as country name?

Skaters are grouped by country for the practice groups before the start orders are drawn. What Canada is proposing is no less arbitrary than doing it by the skater's last name like you suggest and far less arbitrary than asking the skaters to "sign up" for their spot in the warmup group (what happens if three skaters want #1 and 2 want #4 and no one wants to skate last?, etc). I don't see it being a problem to alternate alphabetically every year as proposed by Canada.

 

[Debbie S]

Sorry if this was already answered but is the proposal to reduce jumping passes in Senior FS (singles) from 7 to 6 included? Choreo spin in singles?

 

[Karen-W]

Sorry if this was already answered but is the proposal to reduce jumping passes in Senior FS (singles) from 7 to 6 included? Choreo spin in singles?

Yes, those are included.

 

[Debbie S]

Yes, those are included.

Thanks! It will be interesting to see/hear the debate on those.

 

[Belsornia]

ISU Council is proposing a QR Minimum Combined Total Element Score Ranking List - top 30 for Men/Women, top 16 for Pairs, top 20 for Ice Dance. I think that this is a bit of a tweak/clarification on how many countries can submit entries for the QRs - it's not just a straight list of ISU Members but instead a separate list of countries without Direct Entries already.

I don't think I like this. Sure, there are bureaucratic reasons (cost, managing the timing of events) but it seems unfair that a team could be judged to have reached the standard to compete at a World Championship but don't get to do so because too many other teams have also reached that level. Competitive skaters from more countries is a good thing!

Good for them! Now, I think it should be that they can't be scheduled to finish after 10pm but if the event runs long, of course they get to finish. (I suspect the actual proposal says this but I'm too lazy to look.)

I think this is probably good (I remember the Challenger a couple of seasons ago where teen pair skaters were competing after midnight) but also I don't want to reduce the number of competitors at championships and I want to go to events and watch every scary pair and early group OES and not get up early when I'm on holiday.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think I like this. Sure, there are bureaucratic reasons (cost, managing the timing of events) but it seems unfair that a team could be judged to have reached the standard to compete at a World Championship but don't get to do so because too many other teams have also reached that level. Competitive skaters from more countries is a good thing!

The ISU has already limited the number of total entries for Worlds to 54 in Singles, 32 in Pairs and 40 in Ice Dance (IIRC - I don't have the Constitution open right at this second to confirm the pairs & ice dance numbers). There are Direct Entries of 24 in Singles, 16 in Pairs and 20 in Ice Dance, so this basically confirms that the total maximum entries for each discipline will not exceed the quotas already established and will, in theory, allow for more skaters to compete at Worlds than what we've seen in recent years.

It was something noted and discussed during Worlds when we were figuring out which countries had earned Direct Entries and how this new QR process would work - the language currently includes ALL ISU Members in the Total Combined Elements Score list rather than only the ISU Members without Direct Entries. Having a separate QR TCES ranking list and allowing the Top 30/16/24 in Singles/Pairs/Dance from only those ISU Members expands the fields to include as many skaters as possible.

 

[Belsornia]

Thanks. I admit, I have not read all 126 pages. So does this mean that the Total Combined Elements Score list will only kick in if the tech minimum is not sufficient to keep the number of total entries to 54/32/40?

 

[Karen-W]

Thanks. I admit, I have not read all 126 pages. So does this mean that the Total Combined Elements Score list will only kick in if the tech minimum is not sufficient to keep the number of total entries to 54/32/40?

That's the way it's reading to me. I remember there was a discussion about it here in GSD a week or two before Worlds when I was looking at the Direct Entries language trying to figure out how the stupid QRs would work next year and we caught, at the time, that the language as it currently reads would actually mean that at least 1 or 2 competitors wouldn't have qualified for Worlds despite having the TES mins because their country was 1 or 2 spots below the Top 30/16/20 of all ISU Members. I believe that @tony sent a text/email/DM to someone he knows who had the proper connections to get a proposal submitted in time to be corrected at the Congress.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Thanks. I admit, I have not read all 126 pages. So does this mean that the Total Combined Elements Score list will only kick in if the tech minimum is not sufficient to keep the number of total entries to 54/32/40?

The way I read it, not necessarily. There could be reasons why some countries in the Top 30 among potential qualifiers don't send a singles skater to Worlds -- ex: illness, injury, retirement(s), or, for teams, splits -- so there are fewer than 30 entries into the QR, and while a skater from the Top #31 Members on the list has reached the minimums, they can't compete in the QR because they're not from a Member in the Top 30.

 

[Karen-W]

The way I read it, not necessarily. There could be reasons why some countries in the Top 30 among potential qualifiers don't send a singles skater to Worlds -- ex: illness, injury, retirement(s), or, for teams, splits -- so there are fewer than 30 entries into the QR, and while a skater from the Top #31 Members on the list has reached the minimums, they can't compete in the QR because they're not from a Member in the Top 30.

Well, the way it reads, it says there is a specific QR ranking list, so it seems like the intent is to exclude ISU Members who already have DEs in that discipline from the QR ranking list.

 

[barbk]

I really, really wish the ISU folks would learn how to write regulations with clarity.